Council reacts to prayer ruling

By JON HAWLEY

The Daily Advance

18 Comments | Leave a Comment

Two Elizabeth City city councilors had different reactions to the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision Monday upholding decidedly Christian prayers to open local government meetings.

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Comments

Well done, Mr. Donnelly!

Well done!

Respectfully Submitted,

Force 12

Writers, YOU are the problem:

Freespeaker, gofigure, and kz001- YOU illustrate the problem. (Note that Freespeaker's comment disappeared while I was writing this reply)

First Ward Councilman Donnelly offers a contrary opinion that supports the rights of ALL Americans, not just the prevailing majority. And yet, the majority chooses to crush this spark of freedom in the name of their own. Be ashamed.

There is no war on Christianity. There is a war by christians on other beliefs and non-believers. And THAT is part of christian teaching. Broadly speaking, the loudest modern American christianity is not tolerant, is not inclusive, and is militantly anti every other religion. Except for the Jews, as long as they agree to stay in Israel to die en masse, and on schedule, to fulfill christian prophecy.

Don't forget that many of our earliest settlers risked their lives to come here to escape the oppression of a dominant religion. Uh, mostly ours, in some of it's most vile forms.

As a colony, North Carolina imposed the Anglican Church on it's people and taxed them to build its churches and pay its preachers. Our oldest surviving buildings are brick Anglican churches in Bath and Edenton. The King wisely added an escape clause to the colonial charter that allowed the royal governor to allow other beliefs if those adherants could not follow Anglican practice in good conscience. Although, he didn't do this for some uplifting and enlighted reason, but to promote rapid development and taxes.

"The urgent need to rid the government from the influence of a single religion was Thomas Jefferson's unifying and guiding light. But Jeffersonian principles have now been set aside for the convenience of promoting Christianity over all other religions." "The Supreme Court ruling is another giant leap toward theocracy. We are descending to new lows, where non-Christians are openly scorned, made to stand up in public to be identified as outcasts. Our founding fathers are crying in shame and frustration." The Supreme Court Rules That Christianity Is Not Christian, Jeff Schweitzer, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-schweitzer/the-supreme-court-rules-t_b_5268488.html

Mr. Donnelly is here publicly scorned by these three ostensible "christians."

Let the christian fascism begin. And for those goose-stepping boots, I recommend Lincoln U.S.M.C. Black Stain Wax Shoe Polish for $7.99. Comes in a nice collectible tin. Available only in bigot black.

Recommend that you start your reeducation by reading Mr. Schweitzer's very thoughtful article.

Respectfully Submitted,

Force 12

That diabolical, hell-conceived principle of persecution rages

1774, James Madison declared, "That diabolical, hell-conceived principle of persecution rages among some. . . . There are at this time in the adjacent county not less than five or six well-meaning men in close jail for publishing their (Baptist) religious sentiments, which in the main are very orthodox. . . . So I must beg you to . . . pray for liberty of conscience for all."

Very well written Force. It can not be understated that religious freedom started out as freedom from sectarian discrimination. Sectarian discrimination has only wained when the US became more influential on the world stage (after World War 2) with the obvious sign being the election of the first Catholic president.

What troubles me is that people are blind to understand this can be used against Christians to push other religions. The country is changing (in some ways troubling), go to larger cities like Houston, Detroit and Chicago you'll see my point.

Dear George, would you please...

expand on your last paragraph? Respectfully Submitted, Force 12

Sure

Islam is growing at a very rapid rate in all of thoose cities.

Isn't that the point...

of the Establishment Clause - the free practice of faith without government intereference or advocacy?

"...that religion should flourish" is a founding principle. The founders specifically did not say which religion.

Are you implying that Islam is dangerous in and of itself? That's what militant Islamists say about militant Christianity as well. Also, keep in mind that Islam, like Christianity, is not monolithic. There are many sects of Islam, and most practice their faith peacefully and want nothing else.

If this is your point, then don't we have criminal laws to deal with the idiots that choose violent conversion?

We already have a notorious and relevent example of persecution by Christians in this country.

The Mormons moved to Utah to escape violent christian persecution. As the Mormons grew and organized politically, they were viewed as a threat by establishment politicians and christian churches in Illinois, Missouri, Ohio, and Utah. In this case, the state and local governments were overtly complicit.

The various "Mormon Wars" illustrate precisely what other faiths fear from militant christianity and the possible outcomes of this Supreme Court decision.

Assimilating and mainstreaming all beliefs is the innoculation against religious strife. Isolating, ostracizing, and outlawing creates the friction that foments violence. It also forces folks into enclaves that form voting blocs to claim their rights.

Keep going. This is good.

Respectfully Submitted,

Force 12

Dear Force 12,

since being a Christian means that one has asked Christ into their heart, asked for the forgiveness of their sins and has professed it, I can definitely say I am a Christian. It doesn't mean I get my life perfectly right; I don't. Maybe before you call a Christian "ostensible", you might want to understand what being a Christian means.

kz001, "ostensible"...

admits my lack of knowledge of your religion and the sentence in which it is used ... Okay, forget the English lesson.

I'm glad you're a Christian. I would be happy for you if you believed something different or nothing at all. It's good that people believe in something larger than themselves because true humility is thoughtful and rarely produces conflict. Please practice your faith as you see fit. That is a gift from our Constitution. Now picture yourself, a Christian, living in Iran. That is precisely what Americans of other faiths fear about christian influence inside our own government. Imagine being Islamic under christian sharia.

I didn't criticize your faith, I criticized your attack on Mr. Donnelly, and the careless attitude toward the Establishment Clause that all three of you exhibited. This blind support for our City Council's obviously sectarian prayer denies everyone else's right to believe and act differently.

The Supreme Court's decision is contrary to the most basic principles of our founding, and contradicts that most basic principle of the Court's function - precedent. If the Court is going to render decisions based upon "tradition" then why not bring back slavery? THAT was an American "tradition" that existed for more years than it's been absent.

Our Founders often referred to our republic as an experiment. Perhaps the grandest experiment is their concept of church/state separation and free practice of faith. I think many of them believed that Christianity could stand on it's own two feet without help from the government. If Christianity is as good as it thinks it is, then it WILL survive and thrive on it's own merits without a government shoving it down people's throats. If it's not, then it will be relegated to foot notes in history books like Druids and the gods of ancient Rome and Greece and the pagan societies that they were built upon.

Personally, I think Christianity will survive because it's principles are solid. It's the practice that fails in some cases. I have faith in our experiment. Don't you?

Respectfully Submitted,

Force 12

Who is scorning who?

You certainly are the pot calling the kettle black, Farce 12! Your name calling of (three ostensible "christians") is purely YOUR assumption that all who speak against wrongs are all Christian. Your condescending remarks are no less scornful than those of which you condemn. Furthermore, your wayward association of Christianity with Nazism is so far off base that it's laughable. Perhaps reeducation is more in line for you to make the drivel frothing from your mouth a bit more believable. Call it a war if you like, but this nation is founded on Christianity and God's laws, which are irrevocable, so like it or not, even with your carefree worldly attitude and God given free agency, you will still be held accountable for all your thoughts, deeds, and actions when you stand before God on judgement day. No, Farce 12, YOU illustrate the real problem, as you have not recognized that God is a SUPERIOR being, mightier than you, and rules ALL mankind. The ONLY way you could ever expect to be like him is to humble yourself before Him and live His laws. Outside of that, you are S.O.L.. So go on living in your pitiful, self-serving world. Your ego is your biggest obstacle in life. As for me, I'll take my chances living according to God's laws.

Ooo! You said nazi!

I said christian fascist. NOT a subtle difference. Study up and get back to me on this one.

This is a reply to the hypocritical right wing concept of enjoying our own freedom of religion as long as everyone else agrees. I agree that God is THE superior being while you and your ILK use HIM to proclaim your personal superiority. Seems a bit prideful, and entirely unAmerican.

Oh, "ostensible" is the correct word. I don't know, but you and they appear to be christians of some kind from your combined comments attacking Mr. Donnelly's support for fair treatment of all citizens.

Now, let's get back on track. Mr. Donnelly is an honorable man. Too bad you and your ILK fail to acknowledge that he is the lone honest American standing for ALL of us, not just you. I give him major creds for this. IF you are American, you should too. You ARE American aren't you?

Sigh.

Judge me not, my friend, ... that belongs to Someone else.

Respectfully Submitted,

Force 12

Your reply

reflects the typical left wing response that ignores all the godly men and women that founded our country. When you cannot attack the message, you attack the messengers as seen in your last sentence.

Nope, not ignoring...

any of the godly men and women that founded our country.

More imporantly, I'm not ignoring the rest of them either, as you and our current "christian" right would have us to do.

The "messengers" here studiously and purposely ignore the true history of our founding to support the right wing narrative, that happens to be self-serving and wrong. It is your message that I'm attacking.

Respectfully Submitted,

Force 12

What a disappointment

to read yet another patronizing commentary by you. Why do you feel the need to take the tone and manner you do when you join the conversations here? Can't you just make your points without characterizing everyone elses? What's with all the labeling? I find your, "respectfully submitted" interesting or maybe you intend it to be, "tongue and cheek".

To: fairnessinmedia

Amen brother! Fartsie 12 is just as disappointing as Donnelly AND Brooks.

Freespeaker, it's ....

past your bedtime now. Time for the adults to speak.

Respectfully Submitted,

Force 12

accidental repeat

accidental repeat

Donelly Finds

the ruling disappointing and discriminatory. Who does it discriminate against Mr. Donelly?? I believe in freedom of religion not freedom from religion and the Supreme Court agrees! We are a nation founded on Christian principles and under God we trust.

Donnelly is disappointing.

Has he ever read how the Founder's handled opening governmental meetings. I am left to believe he doesn't respect their actions. That is dangerous for America...our Founder's gave us the greatest Constitution that ever existed.

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